Things aren't as black and white as has been presented here or in the commercial media. There is a blockade, whatever you think of it, and these people and ships knew full well they were not going to get through before they set out. The Israeli's offered to guide the ship to the Ashdod port, off load the goods, and take them over land to Gaza, but that was refused. Did the people aboard the ships actually want to get the humanitarian aid to Gaze or just challenge the blockade? Sounds like the latter. When they were boarded as they knew they would be, the were prepared to fight. These were not innocent people being attacked. This was well planned.

Israel cannot say it wants to live in peace in Israel. which is a reasonable aspiration in any country, as long as they send forces against humanitarian aid in such a way that people are killed and wounded unnecessarily. Two people of my generation whom I know and trust, Bp Tutu and Pres. Carter, as well as other "elders" call Israel's actions unacceptable, and rightly so.

Come on, I mean - please! Those Israelis simply THRIVE on insulting the so-called international community. They operate totally outside any sort of enforceable international law, and they love it. Have you noticed the permanent sneer on the faces of their politicians and spokespersons, looking down on the rest of us as if we were dumb bugs? I grew up in Hitler Germany, I'm familiar with that sneer. Israel would like nothing better than to trigger WWIII. Then they could sneer at everything all the way to kingdom come! Pete Edler, Stockholm

Every news site and opinion site on the web has these Israeli apologists who try to defend "poor little Israel" from the approbation of the world community for their crimes. There is an app available from the website giyus.org (give us your united support) which allows Israelis and their supporters to follow in real-time web postings world wide but especially in the US. It seems hasbara has become viral in more ways than one. If Israeli actions were not so violent and unjust you would not need your own volunteer propaganda corps.

Let me get this straight; the nice friendly Isreali commandos drop from attack helicopters at 5 AM wearing masks armed with heavy weapons that they've been trained to kill anything in their path with while supported with gun ships aiming their weapons at this ship on a humanitarian mission to happily guide them into port so they can deliver the goods to the people they hate. Then the commandos kill 19 people.

Do you think I'm a fu##ing idiot? All the pro Isreali comments here are in total denial of the facts. Bottom line, they MURDERED innocent civilians and must pay.

I've worked so hard to understand and accept the Isreali viewpoint over the years but it ends now. Isreal is a brutul, murderous nation that couldn't care less about anyone other than themselves.

For the second time in some months I am somewhat concerned at reactions from readers.

In response to certain statements... one reader suggests/claims that provocation of the blockade could only have culminated in such a conflict. Well, maybe, you are right. That would mean though that each time one is faced with injustice, and knowing full well that force will be deployed, one should stand down. All references to peaceful demonstration throughout history show that as demonstrators walk/sail towards their oppressors the inevitable aggression occurs as the only way to prevent the conflict is for the barrier to be raised. This begs the question of the 'barrier'; why will the protagonists of a Zionist state not raise the' barrier'? (I refer to the instigators of this violent act as Zionists to refrain from blaming the people of Israel. This type of atrocity is not condoned by the moral base of Israel, in the same way that not all South Africans or Irish Protestants would have condoned the apartheid regime in their respective countries) Why so much fear from the people of Gaza? And the response of terrorism is not an adequate answer as it means very little in a world where people/nations are being destroyed by the overwhelming greed of man for money and mineral riches; this international state of affairs terrorizes me. Should I call myself a victim of terrorism? So let us put aside semantics and try and truly find the leverage that will bring these communities together.
The civilians 'attacked... first ...'. With what? Knives? It seems that our capacity to create coherent ridicule knows no ends. I refer to the hijacking of planes in the not so long ago attack on Manhattan where the world media led us to believe that hijackers controlled a plane using box-cutters. I amn't quite sure why, having taken so much time, thought, energy, logistic expertise, identity control and audacity that one would finally say, 'Oh and we mustn't forget the box-cutters'. I am sorry to be flippant but if we are to accommodate the theory that this fleet of ships knew that a conflict was imminent, they also knew that they were up against one of the most lethal and highly trained military machines in the world with extraordinarily competent commandoes. It stands to reason that one would sufficiently arm oneself for the battle. I believe there was no battle.
Now for the final 'anonymous' remark as of present.
A 'war against non-believers'. It would be in the interests of all and a sign of respect for literate journalists if such childish statements could be kept away.
I have been reading Truthout for some years now and although I do not always agree with the analysis given I commend them for structuring a media support that gives wide opinion and thought provoking coverage...TO ALL. This is how man can advance.
My own personal belief is that political interest in Israel is starkly infested by fanatical religious fervor. Judaism shares its fanaticism with the Christians and the Muslims. Such stances are radically different from the true essence and I have noted as I age that people with an unnatural religious fervor are more often than not very poor students of their faith. Unfortunately these people often have wealth and power.
I look forward to following the progress which can be made from this tragic situation for indeed now more than ever progress does have to be made.
Kindest Regards
Finn Anson

Post Scriptum

I do not understand why people wish to remain anonymous here. Are you afraid of 'reprisals' in what ever form might be forefront in your mind (What the neighbour might say/losing a job/Secret Services...)? The use of international forums does further reconciliation as discussion takes place but I would certainly feel a sense of trust if I participated with people having enough confidence in what they say to identify themselves.
It would seem more sincere.

ALL & ANY military is trained to kill--that is their purpose, so don't expect any less. & when they have the weapons & power, you might want to consider who is going to make the final determination 'self-defense'? There was report of an activist N.Cetin w/ a 1yrold baby--if it be true-?-that is abusive & stupid to your child, & criminally negligent to take your own child in harms way.Not like the Turks have not have differences & killed anyone?I don't think the Isrealis should have done what they did & the incident was preventable...but those approaching have to take some of the blame too:you don't walk into a lion's den unprepared. 4BOTH sides:2 wrongs donot = 1 right.

The Israelis have legitimate security concerns about a ship entering Gaza (gun running, etc.) but the way they handled this incident was totally inept and heavy-handed. It should have been handled through a diplomatic, not military, process.

The ships should have been approached by non-armed inspectors in small craft and escorted by strong military backup. If the inspectors were threatened or attacked, then they could have radioed for help. As it was, the Israelis provoked this incident out of a habitual mindset, "The best defense is a good offense." Airlifting armed soldiers onto an unarmed aid ship is not very skillful if one wants to make peace with one's neighbors. What did the Israelis expect the aide workers to do? Of course, they would try to defend themselves in any possible way against the soldiers who, obviously in this case, were the threatening party.

If it is serious about a two-state solution, Israel should seize every opportunity now, as the side with power, to begin to treat relations with Palestine with respect as they would with any other country, and not as with a penal colony which is what Gaza has become under their rule.

I've been in demonstrations before, where one group is going to do civil disobedience and engage with the police/soldiers, while the others are peaceful. THe fact is that the other ships did get boarded and taken over, peacefully, land the goods distributed. THis one ship had armed people who wanted to engage and were willing to put their lives on the line for their cause. They knew exactly what they were doing. I'm against the blockade, but the reports of this event have been biased and simplistic. Truthout has a fairly good description of the event.

Alex 21:49 says the Israelis attacked with heavy weapons? I think not. They were armed with paint-ball guns and side arms. That doesn't sound like they were preparing to massacre anybody. Clearly these Palestinians were prepared to be massacred otherwise they would have accepted the Israeli offer to unload their cargo in Israel so it could be added to the humanitarian aid that is shipped into Gaza daily. Instead they chose confrontation and got what they expected.

Trouthout or someone else, give us a list of products made in Israel so that we may be able to avoid buying them. I know that the Eppi company who makes razors and shavers is in Israel and a chain of markests sells a grape juice from Israel as well. We need a comprehensive list.

They brought what? Why not check and see what in fact the Israelis did deliver from the seized ship: medicine that was out of date...and it took 600 people plus young kids to bring these goods? Fact: Gaza closed for inspection by accord with US, Russian, Fatah, Egypt when Hamas got in power...Blame Israel? Ah, the knee jerk reaction of the left amazes me.
note: wait till we learn about who ran the operation, who the 60 are who are held and refuse to give names of countries; and I would not be surpised if our NSA has not monitored what took place throughout.Have you seen the display of knifes taken in the raid--these were not kitchen silverware.

A wave or protests....yeah, like there was re Rawanda, Zambawi, North Korea, China's lack of humanrights, Cuba's tyranny, Iran's mass murder of its own people for demonstrating, Putin's heavy handedness, etc., etc. If this is what the world thinks, screw them, I'm sticking with the U.S. and Israel.

The Israeli propaganda apparatus is absolutely stunning. It is the most well disciplined and well organized machine the world has ever known. It develops a strategy for its targeted audience and executes brilliantly and flawlessly.

I think there is one simple and essential fact here that is not in dispute:

Armed Israeli soldiers forced there way onto a civilian vessel in international waters in a pre-dawn commando style military raid.

With that single fact alone Israel automatically forfeits any claim of self defense. The issue of the passengers offering a resistance with weapons is just irrelevant as well as absurd. The only weapons the passengers had were what they could fashion from common things found on most ships. Had they pulled out AK47 rifles and opened fire on the attacking Israelis they still would have been within their right of self defense.

...attacking a Sovereign ship on high seas is an act of Piracy...

...people are allowed to defend themselves against such attack in any way they can...

...unarmed, they attacked the Pirates with pipes and turned their weapons on them, throwing one Pirate overboard...

...these Pirates should be taken to the Hague !...

OY VENAL!

Even for the most heinous acts Israeli apologists still argue against all logic and sensibility. Their blockade is illegal, the boarding of the ship is illegal, they killed 19 civilians, and armed or not, the Israelis had no right to board the ship. Israel thinks and acts as if it is a law unto itself. In addition to its inhumanity in Gaza, let's not forget its illegal invasions and bombings of Lebanon on several different occasions, use of white phosphorus against civilians (a war crime), facilitation of the massacre of 1,000 civilians in Lebanese refugee camps, etc. ad nauseum. This latest action is merely a continuation of a long string of such incidents. For those who wish to be enlightened, read British reporter Robert Fisk, especially his book Pity the Nation. We get little objective reporting from the US media and Fisk provides what is missing here. He doesn't spare anyone and wrote that in the Middle East there is no right and wrong, only wrong. Israel is no better than its enemies, and in some cases, is worse.

Watching the ABC evening news tonight it was said that "Israeli soldiers were 'lightly' armed." BULL, those rifles don't look that "light" to me. The people of this country have only gotten the Israeli side and that is why we continue to support them and God help you if you criticize any of their policies, that would make you Anti-Semitic.
My sympathies to all involved.

P.S.--

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (Zechariah 12:3)

Mock all you want, scorn all you want but the bottom line is this: You (yes, YOU) had better have your heart and soul right with God. Or else.

If you need help: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

It is sad that we ALL respond out of our prejudices and political inclinations, regardless of the facts. Have the people responding with hatred explored their feelings and tried to hear both sides? Do we help the situation by expressing our rage and violent wishes? Humans seem set on destroying themselves and our planet.

ISRAEL HAS PROVED ITSELF TO BE A TERRORIST STATE.

...How blind we are to proportion, by design of the propaganda apologists for the much bigger mass-murder machine! Because we don't think the mass-extermination by fighter jets and bombers are just as atrocious as suicide bombs! Get real! The former is far worse because it is are carried out on a much larger scale, in one foul swoop, over and over and over again! And, just because the bombs and missiles are U.S. and/or Israeli, etc., doesn't make the atrocity(ies) any less! In fact, the purveyors of mass destruction and murder are MUCH WORSE purveyors of atrocity(ies)! Wake up and face the ABSOLUTELY HUGE level of mass-murder compared to the MUCH SMALLER mass-murder of the defenders. But the MUCH LARGER proportion(s) of atrocities by the aggressor(s) is and/or are excused! What kind of "ass-backwardness" is that, which is excused again and again and again and again, ad nauseum!?!?!?!

God help us all in the face of the intransigence of the blind apologists for the much greater mass-murderous machine, and in the face of that much greater mass-murderous machine itself!!!!!!!!

Say, ignorant "Brother_Unknown", did you ever think that they weren't allowed to bring such tools or parts because such are interpreted as being able to be used for producing weapons? Fully use the brain that God gave you, for His sake, PLEASE!

Ok S. Wolf Britain, you sound a lot like a religious extremist which would make you part of the problem.

...Evil and evil people like yourself cannot be reasoned with. All people like yourself can do is give evil arguments back "justifying", "excusing" and rationalizing the irrational, inexcusable and unjustifiable, if that. You are indoctrinated, conditioned, programmed and "washed-of-brains" by evil so much that you can't see the Light at the end of the tunnel; and, because of that, the chances of getting through to you are slim to none. You are just very likely much too immersed in darkness and evil to get through to.

As the great believer in Christianity, and psychiatrist, Dr. M. Scott Peck, so rightly and correctly said, "(T)he evil (people) are the most insane of all (people)".* Thus, those like yourself who "justify" evil, and are thereby complicit in, a part of, and/or guilty of perpetrating it even by their indirect complicity in it, are the most insane people on this planet. But, of course, your ilk are the "sociopaths" who are supposedly "normal" and the so-called "sane" ones. Well, since that is the case, God save us from ALL of the so-called "sane" people!

( * From his book, People of the Lie; excerpts of which can be read at: http://www.form-legal.com/wolf-two.html#evils )...

As we are coming up to the anniversary of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, which took place on June 8th 1967, it is well to be reminded of the fact that relatives of US Veterans are, to this day, still waiting for proper accountability and redress...from the US government...

Paint ball guns...you have got to be kidding
you believe that and brother I got a beautiful toll bridge to sell you...right here in SF Bay

Well said David. I am sure it would be an easy thing to objectively report how many people were killed and by what sort of weapons. But the question is, how many news sources would bother to report it and how many would believe it. I guess such is life on the lunatic planet.

As always, the psychopathic Israelis are defended by dips that cannot accept the truth about this criminal state, established as a center of Zionism and for protection against its thousands of illegal and inhumane acts against the rest of mankind.
Without the backing of the US Government, Israel would not even exist, as it is NOT the homeland of the so-called Jews, who are in fact for the most part Khazarian Mongols that took Judaism - the exact opposite and enemy of Christianity - as its national "religion" in 745 AD.  Thus, perhaps as many as 90 percent of Talmudic worshippers have no Shemite blood.

 
Anti-semitism (a made up trigger term) means anyone that tells the truth about the so-called Jews.  You defenders of the rogue and quite mad State of Israel do not even know that the so-called Jews are not Shemites (they stole the term and changed it to Semites), but the Palestinians and other Arabs are. 
 
It is a massive fraud perpetrated and perpetuated by madmen that believe through the traditions of men that they are superior to all others when the fact is they are inferior to most.  They are not Israelites, nor do they call themselves Israelites.
 
Persecution to these people – the Zionists Israelis -  mean when they cannot exploit Christians and Muslims.
 
A reactionary is anyone that reacts to their Zionist crimes against mankind.
 
For Pete’s and the sake of all mankind, Israel was not even created legally.  The Palestinian land was stolen from them.  Israelis had no right to the land, and after receiving the stolen land, immediately began violating the laws of righteousness. Look up the Deir Yassin massacre by the psychopathic Begin and the Irgun terrorist group.  Read about Begin claiming the beginning of the world’s terrorism.  Read Israel Shahak, Benjamin Freedman, Jews against Zionism, and hundreds of other Jewish sources warning the world of Zionism and the illegality of the State of Israel.
 
Anyway, rank and file so-called Jews (whether of Sephardim or Khazarian descent) are in as much danger or more than what the Jews call "gentiles".  Their psycho leaders will lead them to doom through criminal acts, the last being the raid on the flotilla.  If you do not believe the danger to ordinary so-called Jews, learn the true history of WW II and who pulled Hitler’s strings.  Hint:  It is the same group of psychopaths that carried out the Bolshevik overthrow of the Russian Czar family, the Romanov family, including children.  The American Hebrew Magazine, September 10, 1920 issue, stated it clearly, as did dozens upon dozens of other sources. 
 
Anyway, learn that Zionists are the evil that has created every war for centuries, wars used to overthrow successful countries, make the Jewish bankers tons of money, to steal the properties of others (there was no such thing as foreclosure in America until the Jewish bankers took over), and so on for volumes upon volumes of well researched and accurate reporting rather than the re-writing of history as the Zionist owned publishers and owners of mainstream media engage in daily, if not by the minute.
 
Study the Armenian holocaust of millions by so-called Jews called the “young Turks”.  Study why dozens of countries kicked out the Jews, including England that did so four times.  Study the fact that much of Christianity has been Judaized by the Zionists.  The Evangelists are not fundamentalists and are in fact no longer Christians but more like Crypto Jews.  They actually support the Zionists, people that hate Jesus Christ with a passion (roughly 1/3 of the Talmud is written in hatred for Jesus and Mosaic law).  Study the marranos of Spain, Crypto Jews that were eventually driven from Spain, a Christian land just as is America. 
 
America will find out the truth that much of the world already knows, that Zionist Israelis are heartless, blood lusting thieves, and destroyers of all that is good in mankind.
 
And, then you apologists for the righteous deniers, the Zionist Mongol mongrelized so-called Jews will awaken to the truth – and regret every word you wrote in defense of the most extreme psychopaths mankind has ever suffered.
 
BTW, I hold no hatred for those that worship Judaism’s Talmud and Kabbalah in general but do, however, despise the actions of the Zionists and their control over our governments through the International Judaic banking cartel.  I also despise the ignorant, indoctrinated people that defend such actions and their hold on America.  As for people, I judge each by his actions but do not generalize to the whole of the people, as you apologists do.  

Het 21:51 — ed lewis - I think you left out the part about jews (excuse me, so called jews) who feast on babies stolen from christian families... YOU are a troll and a raving lunatic!

No, "AnonymousDV", YOU are the one who is a raving lunatic! A completely washed-of-(TRUE)-brains raving lunatic at that! Ed Lewis gives the True History of so-called Jews, the "Jews" who completely unrighteously, illegally, and without a semblance of a true leg to stand on stole land that hadn't been their's for almost two thousands years because God allowed them to lose it due to their thousands of years of backsliding and turning their backs on God; and carrying out their own, not God's, will over and over and over again, as they are doing now.

It's like those who refuse to accept the True History presented by Howard Zinn (RIP), and continue to accept and believe the false and/or rewritten history that Columbus was supposedly a great, heroic, savior of the "savage(s of the) New World", and that the mass-extermination of the "savage" North, Central and South American Indians, though "regrettable", was a supposedly "necessary" eradication of the "heathen" so that the "righteous 'Christian' 'chosen people'" could exercise their "manifest destiny" and inhabit their lands "like they were meant to"...

..."It is written, thus says the Lord God [through Jesus the Christ (the True Messiah of both Jews and Gentiles), the Word(s) of God, and the Maker / Creator of all things except evil]...": "...I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are (of) the synagogue of Satan..."! "...Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your (the Gentiles') feet, and to know that I (God) have loved you (the Gentiles)..."! [Revelation 2:9 and 3:9; etc.; emphasis and/or clarification(s) added by me.]

All I can say is thank goodness we live in a secular society where religious extremists like those here who spew this sort of irrational, hate filled nonsense are unlikely to ever gain power.

Well I hope Israel thinks of a better way to stop the Rachel Corrie when it gets there. I realize my posts look like I'm an Israel supporter, but Israel has their own religious extremists who want to annex the west bank and Gazza. Their continued settling of Arab lands furthers their aims. There's plenty of blame to go around and I am very pessimistic about the prospects for peace.

AnonymousDV-The postmortem shows the following:
-9 shot and killed by 30 9mm bullets
-a 60 yr old man shot 4 times in the temple, chest, hip and back
-a 19 yr old shot 5 times from less than 45 cms in the face, back of the head, twice in the leg and in the back.

How dare you even post your ridiculous views here, you swine. Self defense? Paint ball guns? Go to Hell.

Right-on, Ed! And AIPAC, etcetera... And the Bushs' and Obama, etc., all work for them!

"It is written, thus says the Lord [God through Jesus the Christ, the True and Only Messiah of both Jews and Gentiles, the Word(s) of God, and the Maker / Creator of all things except evil]...":

"...Get... behind (Jesus the Christ), Satan[ist(s)]..."! "...You are of your father the devil, and the lies of your father you... do (perpetrate and perpetuate)..."! [Matthew 16:23 and John 8:44; etc.; emphasis and/or clarification(s) added by me.]

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