To partly answer the author's last question - You will never find peace makers from Israel. Israel has existed in a perpetual state of war since it's inception in '48. This is Israel's card to play when whining for the sympathy of the world. "We are at war for our survival" or some such crap. It gets them foreign aid, military aid and the knee jerk reactions they've been looking for all this time. Thank god this knee jerking is diminishing and the thin veil of respectability that once disguised Israel is being shed. That veil is being shed by Israel itself, like a stripper who looks great in the dim stage light until more is stripped away and eventually exposes the whore underneath.

good piece.

but there cannot be peace until there is justice.

the Israelis will have to make reparations with the Palestinians. just as was done in S. Africa, Bosnia, and of course in Israel with the memebers of the SS, etc. There will have to be trials for war crimes. Are the Israelis willing to do this?

There is a huge disparity btn Israeli suffering and that of Palestinians. The Israelis are not by any stretch of the imagination in an equally debilitating situation. The Palestinians are occupied and held in an open air prison. The Israelis are not. If peace is to be made, the Iraelis will have to wrestle with their demons.

What about the Arab countries making reparations for their Jewish citizens who were forced to flee? Approximately the same number of Jews became refugees as the number of Arabs who were told to get out of the way so the Arab armies could drive the Jews into the sea. The difference is that Jews had Israel to go to while the Palestinians have been left to rot by their Arab brethren. If you want peace, it will happen when the Arab world decides to join the 21st century.

part 2 of spam filtered -
To continually push for unrealistic goals like '67 borders, or complete open borders, to allow weaponry to pass to and fro -- seems absurd and suicidal, given the costs, and what this kinds of demands ultimately do not accomplish.

Peace, as a means, and in this situation (IMO), is a stronger force, by far; but for the most part, I don't see that supported by the Palestinians' so-called internet friends. I see most of them as very destructive to that process.

I thought the Irish peace activist on the Rachel Corrie was an effective voice -- as far as I could see, at least .. in that one situation .. she salvaged what was also a public relations nightmare for the "activists" .. after all, listen to people like Helen Thomas .. find out what's really in the belly and bile of some .. after all these years. They didn't suddenly "discover" these views of "the Jews" were "correct after all." They always had these views, and as usual, they are grabbing for any rationalization they can find to bolster their bigotry.

"The Jews" "The Jews' -- I mean, so many of you people sound absurd and deeply psychologicallly ill. You talk about an entire group of people like they're aliens from outer space.

part 4 of spam filtered -
These people worked with the fascists and supported the Nazis during the Second World War, and from within the United States. There is this Arab/Nazi connection that has always deterred the peace process in the Middle East, and which is ever avoided and ignored as a topic to grapple with, by those who profess to support the Palestinians and while also supporting the right of Israel to exist.

To me, it looks like that strand and old alliance has an upper hand in the dialogue, left completely untouched by this so-called progressive community. Making all their professed aims highly questionable.

Oh, whoopy-dee-do. You now have *a good excuse* for not believing in the right of Israel to exist. But we all know, you never did. Though you believed in the rights of the British. [rolling my eyes]

Where is the balance? You have to look under your sheets, dears, and see who you've been sleeping for for the last half century. I have yet to see ONE of your journalists take that on.

spam anonymous

what you consider as 'unrealistic' is what in reality is international law. there is nothing else to stop barbarism. and please: try to stick to the facts instead of all this propaganda-nonsens.
stan

W/ great sadness to see some of the extreme bitterness exhibited here as people write or speak: from those who appear to be guiltless? Well, you know, 11 young kids in China died this year--committing suicide--so you could buy your hot cheap stuff @ deal prices! I bet no one feels much responsibility for that. Or the NIgerians who die so they can claim a few more %$ returns on their natural resources! Everyone living in any country, of any religion has blood on their hands too, just as Israel does now. Maybe you were not privileged to see the process? Not a pretty process. Go back to your history books. Hopefully it will not take as long as those French & Germans did to get to the conclusion!! Let us not try to throw oil on the fire either. Remember that before you get on your high horse. Discuss, please.

it is not anti-semitic to criticize israel.

it is not anti-semitic to claim that the jews should not have been "given" the land known as israel.

we all have genetic/cultural ties to all parts of the world (regardless of ethnicity or descent). that doesn't warrant a right to clear the people living in a particular part of the world from the homes and carry out what amounts to a genocide against them. it wasn't right in the Americas, in Africa, or any other part of the world. defending Israel's right to exist on the pretext of colonization is ludicrous.

You will never have peace because of who is running the show. If you want peace, you have to address the hand behind the scenes. The Israelis and American govt interests do lie with peace. They clearly disregard the mandate of the masses which desire peace. There are a few individuals with tremendous power and influence whose lifeblood is war. Until the people hold their govts responsible, there will be no peace because the people in charge are evil to the core. Where is our courage? Also there will never be peace as long as there are zionists. I have come to accept this, the evidence is far to strong to look the other way, they need to be destroyed. I would rather avoid violence but I see no other way to deal with a dog that is rabid to the point of no return.

Regarding the recommending of books asked by a previous poster:

I strongly recommend that you do a lot of reading, there is not just one book or DVD that will cover this vast terrain. The majority of the people writing on the Internet about this are only worth listening to in order to know what is in people's minds these days, but most of them speak from places of profound ignorance, anger, and barely veiled -- or not veiled -- hatred for either side of this conflict. Some think all Arabs are "towel headed terrorists" and others would wipe the Jews off the face of the world if they could, even though they might not come out and say it. (Some do say it).

So please, join the team that working to become truly informed, to truly work for peace, and act as thoughtful arbiters in this terrible situation. That requires more than just sound-bite information, more than just finger pointing, hate mongering and blown up rhetoric by people who seem to feel themselves guiltless, though they take part every single moment in their lives in systems that oppress and destroy. You will find no end to that here.

Here is a list of some books on the subject. I recommend reading widely.
"One Palestine, Complete: Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate"- Tom Segev, Henry Holt & Co, 1999.
"A History of the Modern Middle East"- William Cleveland, Westview Press, 2004.
"The Fateful Triangle: the United States, Israel, and the Palestinians"- Noam Chomsky, South End Press, 1983.
"The Middle East and Islamic World Reader" - Edited by Gettleman and Schaar,Grove Press, 2003. (Highly recommended as a source for pertinent primary documents)
"Resurrecting Empire"- Rashid Khalidi, Beacon Press, 2004.
"Orientalism" - Edward Said.
"Middle East Illusions"- Noam Chomsky, Rowman and Littlefield, 2003.
"Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid"-Jimmy Carter, Simon and Schuster, 2006.

Right-on, Ken! Edward Said (RIP) is a great Palestinian-American hero as far as I'm concerned; and, you're right, his writings should be required reading in schools and colleges. Said, Chomsky and Zinn helped wake me up and get me on the path that I'm on today; at least, in the case of Zinn, until I realized that he was pro-globalism (because he directly admitted that he was), and then I realized that he was controlled opposition like Chomsky. But I don't think Said was; and I hope I'm not wrong. But all three of them tell it quite a bit like it is, and I recommend them as a stepping stone to greater and greater, and completely uncompromised, truth if nothing else; especially Said. A link to one of his most important short writings is below.

Of course, you didn't mention anything by Zinn, at least in this context, probably out of consideration for a more specific context, or inadvertently. But, concerning Zinn and his writings, I would of course most highly recommend, first, Declarations of Independence; and, second, A People's History of the United States. And, as far as Chomsky is concerned, I would most-highly recommend Rogue States as an exceedingly definitive description of what "rogue states" are, and proof that the United States government is one of the worst, if not THE worst rogue state. Believe it or not, especially the first and the third of these recommendations ARE related, if tangentially, to Palestinian and Israeli considerations.

Links to some of the writings of all three of foregoing brilliant teachers are as follows:

www.form-legal.com/comments-one.html#apocalypse

www.form-legal.com/comments-two.html#coming

www.form-legal.com/comments-three.html#independence

www.form-legal.com/comments-eleven.html#suicide