So, lets go to USC, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc. and throw out the bums with German, Russian, Japanese accents who are teaching physics, math, science and all the other things universities offer. If its good for Mexicans its good for Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and Asians as well. Lets go back in time and give Einstein the bums rush. How about The Cisco Kid and Pancho. You know what, I never could understand Henry Kissinger or anyone from Brooklyn or the Bronx, How about Hillbillies. Now that I think about it, a lot of Native Americans have kind of an accent. If you don't sound like a network news anchor, take a powder.

1. Definitely, the law should be thrown out and is no good.

But why are high schools hiring people from other countries when so many American teachers can't find employment? Plus, English classes should be conducted by teachers who can pronounce English correctly -- quite apart from "heavy accent."

Only 35% of Harvard's graduating teachers had job offers. And this district needs to turn to Mexico with job offers for teachers?

No, this isn't right.

3.
Not to mention the fact that this under-the-table labor agreement is one of the reasons "progressives" were unsuccessful in obtaining a Medicare for all model.

Yes, they need to pass an immigration bill, but they shouldn't, unless the Mexican government agrees to opening a Medicare for all like model in their own country, and the idiots in our Congress open one for Americans here. AND any Mexican citizens on pathways to American citizenship renounce all claims on citizenship to Mexico.

How come truthout has only one tiny little article about the trade agreements -- with a "tentative" suggestion that we rethink what these mean?

5. (last one was supposed to be 4)

The fact that our borders have not been enforced is not because we live in the land of the free with lady liberty holding up her lantern -- it's a whole other ball game that's about the corporations taking over everything -- from health care, energy (wars and destruction of the environment, and in this case, our international borders and basic rights Americans have concerning labor and jobs.

Mexico is well capable of addressing these concerns in their country. Being a hearty little free enterprise capitalist nation of its own. The RICHEST MAN ON EARTH is a Mexican citizen living in Mexico. How about that!

The end

The end ..

well one more thing --

just FYI, I support elective ethnic studies classes and do not agree with the Texas curriculum overall either.

Also note that there are plenty of highly qualified, unemployed American teachers who are Latino and who can teach ethnic studies classes. i.e. I don't see any reason why those teachers should be hired from outside the country either.

Wow, the fact that the world's currently richest man lives in Mexico is prima facie proof that Mexico is rich enough to provide a universal Medicare like coverage. Stunning logical deduction.

@16:55

Thank you for showing everyone more of the true "colors" of your "movement; maybe people should start reporting illegals, just for being illegals.

Or just let the Republicans handle it for a while ..

Tell your people to put through Medicare for all Americans and to have Mexico open up a similar Medicare for all like health care program if they want an immigration bill passed.

And BTW, GFY.

This article completely misses the point, there is huge corporate backing for this Apartheid. talk about not seeing the forest for the trees! this is nearly as poorly revealing as right wing media's racist trash pulp.

many people attribute hate in this situation because of the actions of a few. Sometimes they don't take into account the fact that people don't want the cost of illegal immigration. The cost of education, healthcare and other things. There are some things we can control in this country and illegal immigration should be one of them.

The United States is not responsible for the Mexican people finding jobs. The last comprehensive reform bill wanted the US to foot the bill for social healthcare in Mexico while we could not have the same thing here. I am all for a federal department that farmers or companies can go to to get legal immigrants to come in and work. And also to go home when the job is done.

The Mexican upper class is extremely rich. The reason they want the poorer Mexicans out of the country is they don't want to have to pay any taxes to help support them. That is exactly why the government will do nothing to stop illegal immigration in Mexico.the fact that the Mexican government is incensed at the fact that we want to restrict illegal immigration should be such an embarrassment to them that I'm surprised they could even come here and show their face.

Not everyone who is against illegal immigration is full of hate. You will never get any where's toting that bag. If you think it is a funny West understand that over 65% of this country who is against illegal immigration is full of hate. I don't buy that

The argument about accents is another example of how intellectually shallow and rationalizing the "open borders" group gets.

Granted, the law should go, and the intellectually shallow right poorly construed what should not be a matter of "accent" but correct pronunciation and the hiring of teachers who weren't shipped in from another country.

IOW, as any person of common sense is aware, this isn't an issue of whether or not an English teacher has a southern accent or a New England accent.

And to suggest that such discrepancies are equivalent to a person with a Spanish accent from Mexico who is not able to pronounce English words correctly is the same, is absurd and irrational.

And one more reason, why I am getting sick to hell of listening to such idiocy. Idiocy from the left, which just as much as idiocy from the right, is dumbing American education DOWN.

HIRE AMERICAN TEACHERS.

And BTW, I think it's good for students to have English teachers from different regions of the U.S. A southerner teaching American Literature, or a New Englander, among other "accents." Hey, how do you think Mark Twain or Henry David Thoreau or Walt Whitman spoke?

It's a disgrace to be hiring people who can't speak English to teach English.

And it's a disgrace to be hiring people to teach other subjects in a high school curriculum if they aren't Americans, considering how many unemployed, qualified teachers there are.

It has NOTHING to do with ethnicity since American teachers are from a broad range of ethnicities.

The only exception I can think of, to this rule, and as concerns high quality education, would be hiring people from another country to teach the language of that country. As in, a Spanish teacher from Spain or Mexico (depending on which version of Spanish students are learning), a French teacher from Paris or the South of France, a Japanese teacher from Japan, a Portugese teacher from Portugal. Maybe. Maybe. Considering, too, the availability of jobs for Americans.

Remember a few years ago when they wanted to teach "Ebonics". An on purpose destruction of the English language by lazy speakers. I wanna ax you sumfin.

My daughter is a product of the Arizona schools. Her comprehension of English is not the result of the schools, but of the tutoring she got from me at home. Why? Because she could not understand her teachers whose accents were so heavy that their spoken English was virtually unintelligible to anyone, even me, and I speak 4 languages, including Latin. I had to speak fractured Spanish to get through a parent-teacher conference with one teacher for whom English is a second language. This law is designed so that students like my daughter do not have to struggle to understand their teachers in an American school. If a person wants to study ethnic studies - do so at the College level where they used to be taught. The introduction of these classes at the elementary and secondary level resulted in the shifting of funds from such programs as special needs classes, music, art, and other classes that had a broader base of student interest. These laws are an attempt to once again provide an education for ALL students, not just a select group of students only, and in a manner that is understood by all the students clearly and concisely. If that is wrong, then perhaps we had better look at the quality of education we have in this nation, and realize that part of the problem in states that pander to just one class of student ALL other students suffer and fail to learn. It is part of what is undermining our educational system, and it is time for it to stop. Because, the next generation of students are going to be worse than my daughter - their parents did not bother to tutor them and the schools could not teach them because the teachers could not be understood!

Does anyone think the new law requiring teachers to teach "without an accent" (whatever that means), will prohibit teachers with a Southern accent?

Didn't think so.

I believe we can quell all of this divisiveness by adopting Mexico's immigration policies.

EX: Mestizo-rights groups are enraged over U.S. efforts to criminalize "undocumented aliens"—yet since 1974, sneaking into Mexico has been punishable by up to two years in prison.

If they can do it so can we.

I say, what about a British accent? Any of them? Would AZ allow Brits to teach in its schools? Londoners sound different from Manchesterites, and there are other individual regions. Then there are the Irish and the Scottish and the Welsh. Just listen to the House of Commons telecasts on C-Span -- they're all speaking THEIR OWN English. They also have some very different idioms -- would AZ allow kids to ask teacher's permission to go to the loo? The way some 'Murricans carry on about English, ya'd think we invented and own it.

man some folks are still missing the point. the arizona legislatiure doesn't care at all about the shcools or the quality of instruction offe3red. theyve basically bankrupted the school system and driven it down to 50th in state educatuon rankings. this is all about politics and power not about any concern for students. funny thought: what iff a teacher said "show me your papers" in a foreign sounding accent? good times ;=)

In some parts of the country, we are having the same problem with medical services. They speak Spanish, but very poor English, and the communication issues are so bad, American patients' lives are actually put at risk.

That, btw, is in the community clinic system, that they are expanding -- with the blessings of the Mexican government - they have entire segments they are handing over to former officials with the Mexican consulate (if they haven't already) -- and it's very segregated -- which violates the Constitution -- and they're doing this because it allows them to continue to have an illegal labor pool in the shadows. Because, of course, when you bring that many workers into the country -- and illegally -- you have to provide them with some form of medical care.

The medical care also -- besides the language part -- is "dumbed down" -- and dumbs down medical care further for Americans.

These folks didn't want Medicare for all Americans -- or for anyone in the U.S. for that matter -- because how would they keep their dirty labor secrets secret if the health care system wasn't segregated.

Tell the Mexican government to open up a Medicare system for their own citizens -- and to bring those workers back to Mexico, the land they love so much, to improve health care for its citizens.

And let our Congress pass Medicare in this country for its citizens if the corporate bastards want their immigration bill so they keep on keepin' on.

Almost every issue that is portrayed as completely black and white (or legal versus illegal or moral versus immoral) has some areas of gray. One that is rarely spoken about in this divisive issue is the children.... sure if you have someone who has just come across the border illegally even if they brought their whole family I can see there will be people who would want them all sent back immediately (even if they came out of desperation because of hardships caused in part by US policies like NAFTA, I suppose out of sight is out of mind to those people) but what of the family who came across with a child of say four years old fifteen years ago...that child has no memory of being anything but an American and yet has no rights even if he has been a exceptional student for example he won't be going to college and he can be arrested and sent "back". Without some sort of amnesty for him or special circumstances granted to become a legal citizen he will be punished for his parent's transgression. I find that especially harsh.

Hell, George Bush couldn't pronounce English words correctly either, and the American people made him president for eight (long) years. Did anyone check his papers?

If you check into it, you'll discover that these Arizona teachers with "heavy accents" are the former bilingual education teachers. They were originally hired because they could teach in English and Spanish--which is a very valuable skill in a place with rational people. I mean, wouldn't it be better for your kids to be fluent in two languages rather than just one. However, Arizona (slavishly following California's lead--as usual) now prohibits bilingual education. Apparently, they want to get rid of these teachers, too.

And speaking of heavy accents, what about university professors? If you prohibited instructors with "heavy accents" (whatever that means) from teaching, you would pretty much eliminate many of the science and math programs at many colleges--physics, for example. And if it weren't for foreign students filling and paying for the seats, many universities wouldn't be able to have advanced degrees in physics and mathematics. Is Arizona going to "downsize" it's universities, just to preserve linguistic "purity." (Well maybe. After all, George Bush IS out of a job right now.)

continued

You learn your second language as part of a second language program. Traditionally, in middle and high school as a requirement. Sometimes brought in, in smaller amounts, in some elementary classrooms.

You are not doing any of these students a favor by butchering English, devaluing its instruction or importance in the curriculum, and under the guise of the importance of a second language.

continued

The universities have been part and parcel of the great American rip-off. Which includes shoveling people deceitfully into programs that don't produce jobs while they KNOW IT -- and just to forestall the ever growing problem of Americans they are NOT EMPLOYING.

They should enforce the immigration laws, they should throw out teachers who can't speak English, they should get rid of this bogus "bilingual" education -- which is really about a failure to teach standard English -- and the elitist, racist, classist Mexican government should take responsibility for its own problems for a change. Provide their citizens with healthcare and jobs and help them reassimilate upon return. I'm sure the Catholic Church can chip in there, too. Charity and capitalism works wonders ...

On the surface of things it is easy to characterize Arizona's not-yet-implemented law as racist, based on racial profiling. This presumes that law enforcement personnel will typically act a certain way in all circumstances - a form of stereotyping in and of itself. The law is no worse than that enacted by the federal government under President Clinton but because it is to be enacted by a state in which the issue is hotly debated, it must therefore be de-facto racism. Intimations of racial prejudice should be based on facts not fears. Let the Arizona law take effect and then be tested in court for constitutionality, depending upon the results, cry racism. Name-calling before that just broadens the very gap this author complains of.

I once had the misfortune of taking a French class from a teacher who had a strong American accent. It was just awful. There may be a range of legitimate French accents, but an American twang is NOT one of them.

Likewise, a person learning English is best off learning from a native speaker of English, or at least someone who sounds like a native speaker of English. This is just common sense.

Quite frankly, if someone is learning English in America, it's best if their teacher speaks American English, not British English, so they learn the accent that will be most understandable. It's also best if their English teacher does not have a strong New York or Southern accent. A mid-west accent is pretty standard and it is understandable to the most people, so that's really the best. An exception might be if they are living in New York or in the deep South, then it could be most practical to learn the local accent.

Just put yourself in the position of a person learning a new language: Do you want to be understood or don't you? Even if you have a good model for native pronunciation, it's still a challenge to develop a decent accent in a foreign language. If you don't have a decent model, it's hopeless.

Years ago, when I studied Spanish (just a little) in our public school system (my focus was French) -- what I was never aware, at that time, was that they were teaching me to speak Spanish with a Mexican accent.

Many years later (but still some time ago), I swapped language instruction with a woman from Spain who was studying English in the United States. She was appalled by my earlier language instruction, as evidence by my inclination to use the Mexican accent. I had no conscious awareness that Spanish from Spain was pronounced so differently in some respects, or that there was such strong sentiments among some, that the Spanish accent was the correct way of speaking, and that Mexican accent was comparable to a bastardization of the language. I struggled with the Spanish pronouncement, she was a dictator on this matter and insistent that I learn it, though I am appreciation years later that I am aware of both and able to use both in some small amount.

I had a similar experience only when I went to France and discovered that I had been learning French with a Parisian accent, and not only that, that the Parisians were incredibly snotty and demanding as to how foreigners pronounced their language when trying to speak it. And would sometimes haughtily respond to your extremely courteous efforts as a visitor by answering you in "perfect" Engllish with their noses tilted.

Down south, I discovered the language was different, softer and more musical to my ear, though also at times, as some reading may understand, like being in Brooklyn. Similarly, the people were much warmer and much more receptive to conversations with foreigners, not to mention, excited by the opportunity to exchange conversation and ideas and news. Not as intellectually polluted by elitism.

Then there's French Canadian, which I find easier to understand than Parisian French, for some reason. Even though I studied "Parisian" French.

@18:39 on .. Don't expect too many people "reading" here to get your points. Reading between the lines, like the importance of phonetic listening, is another comprehensive skill long lost in American education.

continued

I don't support the Arizona law, though, and I have to say, when I watch some of the video clips of the demonstrators there -- because we don't have cable in our home -- I feel more sympatico with the boycott people, not the law and order folks. I mean, honestly, who can relate to these people saying things like, "Let me make this straight. This is MY land, but it's not YOUR land." And wearing those tacky American flag shirts. I did notice, btw, in the abc clip, a high percentage of blondes, which is WEIRD.

continued

continued

You see, the Democrats have been bringing illegal labor into the state for years now in Washington, just hte way the Republicans have been doing it in Arizona. They're just "quieter" about it in Washington.

And frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing my area turn browner. Also, I think a lot of these people would support Medicare, as one issue, although there are people from Mexico who have been brought in (through the health care system) who are just as corrupt and dishonest as the Mexican politicians who aren't doing anything in that country. After all, it's capitalism that is the great "open borders" thing in some people's confused minds.

continued

continued

But, putting aside QUEEN GREGOIRE, again, for the moment,
I do think they should contact Nintendo since they have a Pokemon competition/convention scheduled in Arizona this summer, I believe.

I don't think anyone should vote the Democratic Party again.

NO MEDICARE
ENDLESS WAR
OVER A TRILLION IN DEBT
MORE HUMAN BEINGS IN PRISON THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON EARTH
PLOTTING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TO SHUT DOWN SOCIAL SECURITY
HARD WORKING STUDENTS UNABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE WITHOUT TAKING OUT OBSCENE LOANS FOR CORRUPT AND UNSCRUPULOUS GROUPS
GIVING OUR BORDERS AWAY TO THE CORPORATIONS AND IN COHORTS WITH CORRUPT MEXICAN GOVERNMENT (quite apart from the "human story" here)

And, I would not be surprised to find out that Maria Cantwell, while singing about how she supported a public option, was doing so only in lip service, while she plotted behind closed doors with Max Baucus to deliver the American people further up to the health insurance industry.

Two comments.  I have taught English for 30 years and have an MA in the field. I have no problem with strong accents among my colleagues, as long as their grammar is reasonably correct. You might be surprised at the number of grammatical errors made by members of  the post-literate generation, all of whom speak with perfect accents. Some are now becoming teachers (and some teach in my own department). However, the primary job of an English teacher, especially on the secondary and college levels, is to bring students into contact with books. It's the author-student relationship that counts far more than the teacher-student relationship. The text is the focus, or it should be. Second comment: the only point in the article that bothers me is the reference to "anchor babies," an issue that the left has yet to deal with honestly. It is against the UN declaration of indigenous rights for an invading people to change the demographic makeup of the country they have conquered.  No other western democracy allows people simply born within its borders to become automatic citizens. English settlers wrote that provision into the constitution in order to encourage a level of immigration that would help them complete the ethnic cleansing of the continent. I wonder how many Native Americans would agree with such liberal immigration policies. The camel, having forced his way into the tent, is now inviting all of his friends.

Jus Soli is practiced internationally by at least thirty-something other nations, including Canada and Mexico, and those nations that practice a modified form of jus soli (citizenship by birthright) have had their systems criticized, in part, because the modficiations create generations of people who are stateless. See Australia, for example, in which a human rights study was conducted on this matter.

It was a fundamental assumption in the Constitution through British common law and adopted formally and explicity by Americans, not British settlers, in the 14th amendment on July 9, 1868.

I'll have you know, Sir English Teacher, that my mother was the daughter of immigrants and she was NOT an "anchor baby."

If all that bothers you, on the matter of the term, "anchor babies," and as an "English teacher," is that the left has yet to "deal with it honestly," I have to say you don't know too much about the English language, and for all your years of teaching English.

You are the one with the self-delusions.

In addition to the further generations of illegal residents this kind of stupid meddling with the 14th Amendment creates, it adds volumes of bureaucracy to already bureaucratic enough government that already has 12-20 million illegal residents to deal with.

As far as teacher/student relationships, they are VERY important, though I commend you for your emphasis on an exposure, appreciation, and understanding (we hope) to fine literature.

I think it's an ignorant English teacher who is not aware of their own accent insofar as regions of the United States are concerned. I think it's good for students to be exposed to teachers from different parts of the United States.

I don't believe, however, that non-American citizens should be hired in teaching positions in the public school system, and especially in an economy as stressed as ours is, at present, in teaching.

These "immigration attitudes," btw, that Lewis and Clark learned about in order to succeed in their journey through various territories -- included hostility or friendliness to other tribes, not just "white settlers."

Though certainly this doesn't detract by how horrible European civilization brought itself to bear on native Americans in the genocide that took place.

A barbarism, btw, that was equally inflicted by European settlers -- the Spaniards -- in what is now Mexico.

So don't forget, either, that "Native Americans" migrated onto this continent. And then fought or didn't fight among different groups about "immigration."

If we could move past "immigrants" and "nativists" as labels in this debate, and instead talk more simply about "people," I suspect a lot of the politics would fall away in the realization that we all need and desire much of the same in this life. Not to say "can't we all just get along" but more to say that people are more alike than different at the end of the day. Powerful forces on both sides of the border have an interest in pitting us all against each other while they laugh all the way to the bank. The last thing they'd want is for us regular folk to get together and change things. Si se puede.

ha a travelin hippie, that's a good one, not even close to the same thing as an ecnomic refugees. immigrants are american workers too, many are part of unions and other progressive organizatisons. effect on legal immigrants too must be remembered here. lets get real and call it what is-- discriminnation and antiAmerican.

The unions are not what they used to be in many respects. They are colluding with the corruption of the companies in hiring people illegally; it may be due in part to their not having much choice about it. Or just the individual human relationships when people start working together. But it is still collusion with illegal activity. Everyone can't just be forever shrugging off the responsibility onto the other party. Also, they are supportive of certain aims in name only, and in that respect, counter-productive to many of the values traditionally held by unions. IOW, no longer really representing those interests. Take, for example, health care. Sure, the unions supported opening up Medicare for all in word/name -- and it would have taken health care as an issue off all bargaining tables. But in the end, they fell in with the health insurance companies because they had among the best health insurance policies in the country, and, they were paid for. They were out demonstrating in the street in San Francisco -- the hotel and restaurant workers -- and an industry, btw, taken over by illegal labor -- over losing benefits that would "reduce them" to paid health benefits that are unheard of for scores of Americans. They were NOT out in force for Medicare for all.

continued

@16:25 -- What about the economic refugees being created in the U.S.? Where are we supposed to migrate? Saudi Arabia? Iraq? Afghanistan? As for "discrimination" -- when the heck did someone get the right to shove their way to the front of the line in the name of "discrimination?" You obviously never had to stand on the line whether you were an American looking for a job, or someone who was applying to work here legally! (Which doesn't include people being shipping in legally to shove Americans out of jobs -- OR -- people being shipped in legally to hide all the illegal labor pools being taken care of in other parts of our economy! All of you too should go back!)

@ 22:07, which land are you talking about that is taken and that you can't go back to? If you are from Mexico, which is where the bulk of illegal labor is coming from, you have a westernized industrialized nation with a democratic voting system and relatively advanced infrastructure.

That is, they were American citizens because they were BORN IN THE U.S.A.

And so was I.

Amen.

Well, Anonymous on 5/29 at 3:10, if every poster to this article were "fired" for bad English usage/grammar, would there be any diatribes left? Especially that one condescending one who keeps typing "continued" at the beginnings and ends - FULL of split infinitives! Confusing Subject and Object? That tells me one lacks objectivity . . .

"Jus Soli is Practiced ..."
 
Sir, you write with fingers crossed. 

 
The list of states that practice jus soli is made up entirely of tiny, colonized third world nations, with the exception of Canada, a colonized first world nation. If it is such a good thing, why don't countries in Europe practice it? Jus Soli is enshrined because it advances the interests of American / European colonizers, not the interests of the indigenous people of the lands they conquer and colonize. 
 
Again, exactly how are the interests of Native Americans advanced by the opening of our southern borders? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to withdraw from our colonial relationship with Latin America so that people there can prosper without having to migrate to El Norte? Wouldn't it be better to direct more aid south so that people can prosper within their own cultures?  Think of root causes. 
 
When we murdered Salvador Allende and installed Pinochet, how many reluctant illegal "aliens" did we create? And having created those "illegals," how reasonable is it for us to expect them to be aware of and sensitive to the complex issues surrounding prior claims to land by native inhabitants? We are not even sensitive to those claims ourselves.
 

I guess I'm having trouble separating our actions from those of the Israelis, who import Russian Jews and then use them as a kind of canon fodder to settle the Occupied Territories and thus extinguish the prior claims of Palestinians. Same difference.