When the US Becomes Greece: Drivel From the Deficit Hawks

by: Dean Baker, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

When the US Becomes Greece: Drivel From the Deficit Hawks
(Photo: Nick in exsilio; Edited: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t)

The headlines about Greece's financial problems have provided a great backdrop to renewed attacks from the deficit hawks on Social Security and Medicare. Never mind that none of it really makes any sense. Not making sense is virtually a prerequisite for being taken seriously in Washington policy debates. This is the reason that the characters who could not see an $8 trillion housing bubble dominated debate in the years leading up to the crisis, and still do today.

The deficit hawks tell us that Greece today is where the US will be in ten years. Yeah, the US and Greek economies are virtually spitting images. In fact, they are so similar people often get them mixed up in discussions.

If we get serious, we see that the US and Greece have almost nothing in common. Greece has a small economy that is still largely dependent on tourism and agriculture. It also has a horribly corrupt government. The Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development estimates that more than 30 percent of its GDP consists of gray market activity that escapes taxation. Even if this figure is exaggerated, the size of the underground economy is certainly much larger in Greece than in the United States.

Greece also has the huge disadvantage of being tied to the euro. This matters for its crisis because currency devaluation, the most obvious mechanism for restoring international competitiveness, is not open to Greece.

By contrast, in spite of the loss of more than one-third of its manufacturing jobs since 1998, the United States remains a manufacturing powerhouse. It's manufacturing sector produced $1.4 trillion in 2007, the last year before the crisis. The United States also has a vibrant high-tech sector and has huge agricultural and tourist sectors.

Suppose the deficit hawks' horror story (dream) comes true and investors lost confidence in the United States. The deficit hawk gang tells us that people will flee the dollar and interest rates will go through the roof.

Does this make sense? Which currency will they opt to hold instead of dollars, euros, yen? As we know, many of the countries in the euro zone have debt burdens that are comparable to those in the United States, and Japan's is actually much larger. If the problem is the debt burden, investors will be going the wrong way in leaving the dollar.

Furthermore, how will these countries feel about a plunging dollar? Will they let the euro rise to be worth two dollars, three dollars? Will the yen be allowed to double in value against the dollar? How many imports will we buy from Europe and Japan if their price doubles or triples to consumers in the United States, which is the direct result of a falling dollar? How much more will we be exporting if the price of US exports falls 50-60 percent?

It is ridiculous to imagine that the governments and central banks of other major countries would allow for the dollar to go into a free fall. Precisely because we are not Greece, but rather the world's largest economy, a sharp plunge in the value of our currency poses more of a threat to other countries than it does to the United States. That is why it is absurd to imagine the same sort of crisis that Greece is seeing hitting the United States in any near-term future scenario.

The same point applies to interest rates. Long-term interest rates will certainly rise from today's extraordinarily low levels, but how high do we think they will go if the economy remains weak? The Fed will presumably keep short-term rates low if the unemployment rate stays high. Will investors prefer to get near zero returns on short-term money than hold US Treasury bonds at a 4.0 percent interest rate? How about a 5.0 percent rate? How about a 6.0 percent rate?

At some point, the gap between the long-term rate and the short-term rate that would be implied is sufficiently large that even a deficit hawk would not try to claim that it is plausible. Higher interest rates are not desirable in a weak economy, but we can live with the sort of interest rates that might plausibly result from any sort of "loss of confidence" that US debt might experience in financial markets.

Of course, the real problem is the spin that we may get from a jump in interest rates. Suppose the yield on ten-year Treasury bonds rose a full percentage point from its current 3.7 percent level to 4.7 percent, a rate that is still below the lowest rates seen in the golden surplus years of the Clinton era. The deficit hawks would be out in force insisting that the financial markets insist that we slash Social Security and Medicare. Given their ability to control public debate, they could win with this line.

So, we have to inoculate the public from deficit-hawk mania. These are the folks who mismanaged the economy through a $10 trillion stock bubble and an $8 trillion housing bubble, causing millions to lose their jobs, homes and life's saving. While they may have impressive credentials, the evidence suggests that they have little understanding of the most fundamental economic facts.

We know that these people don't like Social Security and Medicare. We also know, that when it comes to the economy, they don't know what they are talking about.  

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Dean Baker is a macroeconomist and co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, DC. He previously worked as a senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute and an assistant professor at Bucknell University. He is a regular Truthout columnist and a member of Truthout's Board of Advisers.


Comments

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"If we get serious, we see

"If we get serious, we see that the US and Greece have almost nothing in common. Greece has a small economy that is still largely dependent on tourism and agriculture. It also has a horribly corrupt government."

At lease we have ". . . a horribly corrupt government." in common.



Japan and the Eurozone do

Japan and the Eurozone do not run huge current account surpluses like the US does. Baker seems to have faith that the rest of the world will continue to fund our spending ad infinitum, as he seems to have faith that the US will someday go back to running fed gov budget surpluses. As for the US manufacturing sector, its cyclical jobs recovery over the past year will soon glide back to the trend line of job exporting.



Nothing lasts forever and we

Nothing lasts forever and we never used to live on credit at the levels we do now. Just because we recovered in the past does not mean this will happen in the future. Our delusions of grandeur cloud the staggering debt and enormous military spending that has brought down all the past empires.

There is no reason to think the collapse of the US Empire will also be avoided if we continue to wage wars.....



Extrapolating past

Extrapolating past experience into the future is fraught with error. There’s a new “normal” afoot, if you can call it that.

(On the assumption that anyone here cares, the word "surpluses" should be replaced with the word "deficits" in the first line of my previous post.)



Hi folks, When we will start

Hi folks,

When we will start talking about the illusory 'Peace dividend' which did not manifest in the early 90's but should have? Perhaps when we bring the troops home. Perhaps when we realize that the Pentagon and its' subsidiaries are at the root of our empires current fiscal problems.
Don't let those who hate the people (i.e. those who want to destroy Social Security and Medicare; who oppose national health care; who favor corporations over people every f**king day of the week) win again.
Here we have a Military Industrial complex which can't even use basic accounting methods to track over a trillion in lost spending over the last dozen years...

When the boot of the Pentagon is taken off the the peoples neck, then we can prosper.

Cheers,

Joe



You do nothing , its safe

You do nothing , its safe fol all , its begin of all world problem , thats all.... thanxs Hlava.bazy



Check your local newspapers

Check your local newspapers for signs of two-headed calves being born, for I find myself in agreement with Mike in NYC.

"Japan and the Eurozone do not run huge current account [deficits] like the US does. Baker seems to have faith that the rest of the world will continue to fund our spending ad infinitum"

I have nothing to add to this, except what Tom W and Joe the penny pincer already said about where most of the spending goes.



TO SAVE AMERICA.. We need to

TO SAVE AMERICA.. We need to first begin with two things..., Bringing an end to two distinct, 'in your face' National Tragedies... FIRST--- Getting CORPORATE MONEY out of ''''OUR'''' Election System and to allow only for PUBLIC FUNDING of ''OUR'' ELECTIONS............................................ ... AND ALSO----> BREAK UP THE ALMOST MONOPOLY-LIKE GRIP JUST A FEW GIGANTIC GLOBAL CORPORATIONS NOW HAVE ON ALMOST ALL MEDIA IN AMERICA..!!!.... NO MORE GLOBAL-CORPORATE AMERICAN MEDIA EMPIRES..!!!... PUT AND END TO THIS REPUBLIC DESTROYING SITUATION NOW..!! ...... 30 years ago, not only was there a FAIRNESS DOCTRINE IN MEDIA which required Media owners to grant equal time to opposing views.., All Media (cable, broadcast, print, publishing, entertainment, etc..) was owned by hundreds of separate, different and diverse entities... BUT.., thanks to the 30 year long Corporate CONservative HOODWINKING, otherwise known as ''LESS GOVERNMENT'' (of the People) Through ''LESS REGULATION'' (of everything Corporate) and ''LESS TAXATION'' (of the ever more powerful Wealthy) and the subsequent deregulation of Media Ownership Rules and the resulting consolidation and concentration of almost all media in America.., NOW.., just a few Global Corporations own, operate and exploit almost ALL MEDIA IN AMERICA..!.... It can boggle the mind, especially after the US SUPREME COURT granted Global Corporations the right to use their wealth and power to influence ''OUR'' Elections............ BUT--- IT MUCH MORE BOGGLES THE MIND TO THINK OF THE POWER A MEDIA MOGUL WITH A VAST GIGANTIC, WELL COORDINATED MEDIA EMPIRE MIGHT HAVE OVER OUR NATION TO .... 'SWAY'... 'PERSUADE'... 'MOTIVATE'... 'INFLUENCE'... 'INFORM'......... 'MISINFORM' ... 'PROPAGANDIZE''... 'CON'... 'FLIM FLAM'..... AND 'HOODWINK..!!'... MILLIONS of people..!!.. A HUNDRED MILLION people..!! Ponder just for a moment such a Media Empire, with its Cable, TV and Radio Broadcast Centers, and numerous Newspapers, and many Magazines, and Book Publishing Companies, TV and Movie Production Companies, and Internet Holdings, and the vast, incredible power they would have to bend an entire Nation to their will... They could move a Nation to War... They could move an entire 'WE THE PEOPLE' to Give up Their Democratic Republic and Replace it with a Corporacratic Government of the Corporate by the Corporate for the Corporate.... AND/OR.. MAYBE ''THEY'' AlREADY HAVE... Maybe they did it by relentlessly and methodically convincing Tens of Millions of citizens that Their OWN Government of the People is a thing of evil to be despised and weakened and starved..., even done away with... Maybe they convinced Millions to cheer the end of their Republic without knowing such was the actual outcome..!... One thing is for sure---- Resolving these two serious, outrageous matters before its too late would go a LONG WAY to bringing Government back to WE THE PEOPLE and saving the Republic from its current Fascist Transformation...



The irony of this situation

The irony of this situation is that most Americans couldn't find Greece on a map of Europe with the names filled in. We seem to be approaching the fear quotient point where the neo-liberals finally get their wet dream wish with a crisis in capital that smacks the masses in that part of the brain that causes panic.

Good job, media guys. Thanks for muddying up the waters of discussion with those opinions that will cause the most damage by those who have most to gain from any crisis.



"Even if this figure is

"Even if this figure is exaggerated, the size of the underground economy is certainly much larger in Greece
than in the United States."

What about the CIA's little pet? The black market in drugs worth trillions?

What about all those loopholes created for the top 1% in the last 30 years or so which effectively means they pay no taxes or extremely llittle? Not content with reducing their tax rates to historic lows, they have riddled the tax code with loopholes only they get to take advantage of.



Hmm, wonder where all these

Hmm, wonder where all these deficit hawks were when Dubya was running up huge off-budget debts fighting his two wars? Maybe they were ostriches at that time . . .



No, Austin, you don't

No, Austin, you don't actually agree with Mike in NYC, he's just hypnotized you with fancy talk. Read the rest of his post! He is completely intellectually dishonest!



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